patrick.net

This has been my point the whole time.

You have a bunch of landlords here, who likely pay far less in taxes on total income/earnings as a percentage than even Romney, yet they are screaming left and right for higher tax rates.

Those higher tax rates wont even affect them.

If you wanna raise taxes, do it right. Cap deductions, raise the capital gains tax. Eliminate loopholes.

Otherwise you are all just hypocrites.

Well... seeing as how states like Cali pay a TON of money that winds up going to a lot of the less productive states I guess this at least partially makes up for that...

dublin hillz says

I'll trade our real estate prices for yours in florida.

But but but you chose to live there, so you could walk to work and yogurt enemas from your 700K loft.

So the states that already are paying more to the feds then they are receiving should pay EVEN more to the federal government so that the slacker states don't have to pay more?

How about we make a it fair - every state gets back what they give. Then I'd agree that the tax deduction could be eliminated.

Here are the top 10 contributor states.

1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)
The parenthesis is how much they get back for every dollar they give.

CaptainShuddup says

dublin hillz says

I'll trade our real estate prices for yours in florida.

But but but you chose to live there, so you could walk to work and yogurt enemas from your 700K loft.

What the hell u talking about, I am from the suburbs lol

CaptainShuddup says

Blue States are tax break leaches

So let's get this straight. Blue states are leaches because their citizens pay for local infrastructure with local taxes, which reduces federal taxes. However, red states aren't leaches even though they don't pay for their local infrastructure with local taxes, but rather get Federal tax money from blue state citizens to pay for local red state infrastructure.

And you're bitching that the blue state citizens aren't being double taxed on their income when they are paying not only for their own local infrastructure but also for the red state infrastructure.

Maybe the damn red state residents should actually produce more wealth. That way they could pay for their own damn local expenses instead of leaching off blues state residents. Blue state citizens have higher incomes because they produce vastly more than red state residents. Even with the federal tax deduction for local taxes, blue state residents pay more in federal taxes and receive less federal funds in return. The only thing that collecting federal taxes before local taxes will accomplish is to make the blue states get their tax revenue from federal taxes rather than local taxes. And that means a hell of a lot less money for red states.

By the way, if you eliminate those cushy government jobs in the military industry -- you know, the biggest fucking socialist program in the world -- then we could eliminate the federal income tax all together. Those socialist military jobs produce no wealth whatsoever, and in fact destroys wealth and wastes resources.

Hell, the only damn thing the red states produce is food, and that's all done by illegal Mexican immigrants. Let's just sell the red states to Mexico and be done with it. We'll get food in return, and the Mexicans can live where they want to. All the rednecks can move to Saudi Arabia, where the culture is more what they like anyway.

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/the-un-resistance-wednesday-november

Back in 2016, when Trump’s first term began, Democrats were coming off eight years of flourishing under the tender mercies of the Obama Administration. The Blue States were flush with federal cash, politically well plugged in, and were slavering for a fight.

But these last four years under Biden have been completely different. Blue states grew dependent on pandemic relief and federal immigration subsidies, while massively increasing their financial burdens and commitments —to non-citizens!— and simultaneously hollowing out their tax base by undermining their cities’ quality of life metrics with homeless encampments, non-prosecution and no-bail policies, and sanctuary largesse.

They can plan their resistance all they like. But the federal subsidy spigot is about to be cut off, at which point they’ll be forced to balance budgets from their own tax revenues. It could be a disaster. Blue State citizens already suffer from tax burdens much higher than competitive Red States. If they raise taxes, more citizens and companies will leave and the Doom Spiral will accelerate.

In other words, this time, Democrat states lack the resources to mount a 2016-style resistance. They need to rebuild, not go on offense. They are so dependent on federal money that, sooner or later, they’ll consider agreeing to anything.

I might be mixing metaphors, but the Democrat states are bobbing around in the same pickle jar as Ukraine. Like Ukraine, Democrat states and cities are financially dependent on the federal government. Like Ukraine, they act like they don’t yet realize how dependent they really are.

Over the last four years, we wryly noted, again and again, that Democrats were governing like they thought Republicans would never retake control of the apparatus of federal government. But now it has happened, and they aren’t ready.

There won’t be —can’t be— any meaningful Blue Resistance from the governors and mayors and their lawyers. Blue donors just urgently flushed a billion and a half dollars down the Kamala Harris toilet, so the blue activist groups will be running on fumes for a while. And, if the Trump Administration can figure out which agency is controlling the corporate media, then media’s relentless, coordinated psy-operations will be shattered into a thousand pieces.

The #Resistance is broken. Nobody’s realized it yet, but it will become obvious soon.

Dan8267 says

Blue states are leaches because their citizens pay for local infrastructure with local taxes, which reduces federal taxes. However, red states aren't leaches even though they don't pay for their local infrastructure with local taxes, but rather get Federal tax money from blue state citizens to pay for local red state infrastructure.

I miss Dan and his stupidity. Blue states like CA, NY and IL get the most federal dollars. It's called the house of representatives. Input and output are way different than he understood/stands. It's called per capita. It's not about taxes paid. It's about what you get because you have more representatives. Senators will rubber stamp it. Government 101. They get more federal dollars per capita. Not about what you pay in, but what you get in return.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/spicy-takes-on-salt-caps

SALT stands for “state and local tax.” such a deduction allows a tax filer to deduct taxes they pay to their home state and county from their federal tax filings. this includes state income tax, property tax, sales tax, etc (though you have to choose sales tax or income tax as a deductible, you cannot do both)

the SALT tax deduction is an explicit advantaging of high tax states and residents over low tax states and residents.

it allows places like california and new york to shield their own tax farm livestock from federal taxation by making it deductible. it is functionally a subsidy for the state level tax and spend behavior of profligate and grabby states paid for by the states who tax less. ...

those trying to cast this as some sort of "middle class tax relief" are simply lying. until you hit about the 80th percentile, SALT cap is basically irrelevant to you and it’s not until the 90th you see much of anything real.




the real game is at the very high end, the taxpayers the high tax states lean on hardest and are most desperate to keep from fleeing to low tax states.

places like NY and CA derive in the neighborhood of half their income tax from their top 1% of payers.

lose any meaningful number of those and you’re cooked. the structural budget hole it blows is unfixable.

ask groovy gavin about that one.

this is life or death stuff for them.

that's the real issue here. it's CA and NY trying to keep the next elon musk or joe rogan or hedge fund or crypto bro from moving to florida or texas by rigging the tax system in a manner that helps them avoid the consequences of their choices. ...

it’s frankly fairly ridiculous that any of this is deductible at all. step back and look at it from a first principles position:

what is the a priori good reason to allow people to deduct taxes paid to states and localities from their federal tax?
why should someone who pays 13% to profligate california pay less to the feds than someone who pays 0% to texas who is running a fiscal surplus?
why should california be sheltered from the migration effects of its fiscal policy and what possible ethical or economic basis is there to shift those costs to the folks who fled to austin and dallas?

Don't raise the capital gains tax.
Many countries don't even have such a tax.

Patrick says

places like NY and CA derive in the neighborhood of half their income tax from their top 1% of payers.

lose any meaningful number of those and you’re cooked. the structural budget hole it blows is unfixable.

It's fixable. They can enact low, broad-based taxes on everyone and cut their budgets. Viola! Fixed!

Counties that took half the SALT deductions in 2018:

there shouldn’t be salt deduction at all imo. instead get rid of it and just lower income tax across the board… so revenue neutral.

this would incentivize states to lower their taxes. otherwise special treatment moves markets.