patrick.net

WookieMan says

In agreement. That's for food though. I don't microwave a thing for myself. As a human I'd rather sweat than be put in an oven.

Microwave devotion is a boomer thing mostly, maybe a few Xers who grew up with that as the primary cooking method. I think it's because it came out when they were kids and is always the "Hot New Thing in the Kitchen" in their mind.

I've seen Boomers look at me aghast when I've not had a microwave. And as if I didn't understand I could get one at the Thrift Shop. No, I just don't use it much, I have one now pretty much as a hotbox to keep food in if I'm making a multi-course meal.

"What about boiling water"? A $20 new electric kettle does the same thing faster, safer, larger quantity.

An unplugged microwave is a good place to toss cell phones and small laptops in case of an EMP attack.

If there was an emp attack, wouldn’t it fry the cell towers and wifi networks anyway? Only hope would be starlink type orbiting internet, but that is assuming that you still have a power source to charge your devices.

PeopleUnited says

If there was an emp attack, wouldn’t it fry the cell towers and wifi networks anyway? Only hope would be starlink type orbiting internet, but that is assuming that you still have a power source to charge your devices.

Starlink depends on computer servers in Bastrop, Texas. Use analog systems like a mid 1970s car (or earlier), and HAM radios that are not digital. Wish I had a Volkswagen Beetle built in 1970s.

AD says

I researched "Hathaway Luxury Apartments" in Panama City Beach (within 1 mile of Hathaway Bridge). It's a huge area where they cleared countless amounts of southern pine trees, as it looks like at least 200 apartment units will be built.

The agent for the Hathaway Luxury Apartment LLC is
Marvin Setness - Controller - RD Offutt Company

I wonder why a major potato company (RD Offutt Company from North Dakota) is an apartment developer in Panama City Beach 😕

But they stopped construction about 4 months ago after they cleared the land, perhaps waiting for the rental market to improve, and/or for interest rates to drop.

Rents seem to remain at 2021 or 2022 levels for at least townhomes on the beach and I don't trust the mega apartment complexes like Urban Blu as they are very deceitful.

US Department of Justice is suing Real Page which is used by apartment complexes to collude on rent.

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My wife is a property manager and they conduct “Market Surveys” to keep up on pricing. These are phone calls and physical tours of neighboring apartment complexes to see what their rent and amenities are. I’m more than sure this is a tool used to collude also. I fail to see how the colluding could be stopped.

Glock-n-Load says

My wife is a property manager and they conduct “Market Surveys” to keep up on pricing. These are phone calls and physical tours of neighboring apartment complexes to see what their rent and amenities are. I’m more than sure this is a tool used to collude also. I fail to see how the colluding could be stopped.

Market research is not collusion. Collusion is when a group of landlords get together and agree on pricing.

HeadSet says

Glock-n-Load says

My wife is a property manager and they conduct “Market Surveys” to keep up on pricing. These are phone calls and physical tours of neighboring apartment complexes to see what their rent and amenities are. I’m more than sure this is a tool used to collude also. I fail to see how the colluding could be stopped.

Market research is not collusion. Collusion is when a group of landlords get together and agree on pricing.

And how do you think they do it? Maybe it isn’t explicit but, it can surely be accomplished like this. Tell me why they would do these market surveys then instead of just running their own businesses according to their own books/accounting? I imagine also, that collusion is very difficult to prove.

Glock-n-Load says

I imagine also, that collusion is very difficult to prove.

You'd need smoking gun evidence likely to prove antitrust behavior like collusion on depressing wages within a sector or industry, or collusion on rent prices.

I guess hidden camera video would be that, and doubt there would be a paper trail like emails.

Glock-n-Load says

Tell me why they would do these market surveys then instead of just running their own businesses according to their own books/accounting?

Prices are set by what the market will bear, not internal costs. When I priced my rental houses I looked at what others were advertising for similar places.

And the Fed tracks rental prices not buy buying stats from Apartments.com, Zillow, Rental Agencies, etc. but by calling homeloaners who haven't rented in 10-20-30 years or looked at local rentals in a decade, and asking them what they'd pay for their own place as a renter. They don't ask current renters, either.

"Well shucks, after I had two kids and brought a house here in Springfield in 2011, we were paying about $1200/month for a 3 bed, 2 bath ranch. So I guess I'd pay $1400 today in 2025."

In case you were wondering why the CPI for housing is ridiculously low versus reality.

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This is why Panama City is betting on tourism, and one major positive is its beach roads are around 11 foot above sea level , which is higher than South Floridas (averaging 4 feet).

Panama City Beach tourism includes a very large Tootsies (worlds largest honky tonk) at the old Spinnakers nightclub as well as so many other venues and attractions like eco tourism (dolphin and sea turtles, fishing on the beach, etc) and its state parks.

It is gearing toward being an affordable Florida vacation and alternative to Orlando / Disney World and Miami Beach, AND for those family vacationers who want to be able to drive to Florida within a 14 hours drive of as far away as Chicago suburbs.

https://nypost.com/2025/05/11/lifestyle/florida-dad-craig-stowell-talks-about-1400-family-disney-world-trip/

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HeadSet says

Glock-n-Load says

Tell me why they would do these market surveys then instead of just running their own businesses according to their own books/accounting?

Prices are set by what the market will bear, not internal costs. When I priced my rental houses I looked at what others were advertising for similar places.

exactly! savings are never passed on to the buyer. chinese shit is cheap, yet our prices are sky high.

AmericanKulak says

Microwave

I just use mine to heat up a coffee cup of water for my instant coffee.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/real-estate/article-14708061/southern-state-housing-market-real-estate-crash.html

Southern state residents 'desperate to escape' but homes won't sell as crash looms

Panic selling is setting in, with residents spooked by skyrocketing HOA fees, especially in the wake of the 2021 Surfside condo collapse, as well as soaring insurance premiums.

zzyzzx says

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/real-estate/article-14708061/southern-state-housing-market-real-estate-crash.html

Southern state residents 'desperate to escape' but homes won't sell as crash looms

Panic selling is setting in, with residents spooked by skyrocketing HOA fees, especially in the wake of the 2021 Surfside condo collapse, as well as soaring insurance premiums.

Yeah this is true for South Florida for the old high rises. Florida passed or is going to pass legislation to try to alleviate this.

This may have a spill over effect to other housing like townhomes and two floor condos.

Not seeing this a factor in Panama City Beach and panhandle for various reasons as those beach front condos do not have same environmental challenges like Surfside Miami; one reason is the panhandle beach front is at least 10 feet above sea level.

For many, they have a lot of equity in those Miami beach front condos so they'll take a reverse mortgage on them to live in them.

Also a major increase in demand for restoration of those condos will result in an increase in qualified contractors to work on them; this may result in lower prices for the HOAs.

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look on Zillow at 8111 Annabellas Ct and 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach , they are selling below their 2006 and 2007 price levels , and 8113 is selling below its 2022 sales price :-(

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8111-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/81779764_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8113-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/112794721_zpid/

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AD says

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look on Zillow at 8111 Annabellas Ct and 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach , they are selling below their 2006 and 2007 price levels , and 8113 is selling below its 2022 sales price :-(

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8111-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/81779764_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8113-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/112794721_zpid/

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Wow, did that first one really sell for $53k back in 2012? The discounts were that extreme? It had sold for $229k in 07.

Living on the beach is becoming perilous when it comes to insurance. I lived on saltwater in Tarpon Springs. 180 ft on the water. Thanks to Maxine Waters’ flood bill the projected flood insurance went from an affordable amount to $45000 a year. I got the hell outta Dodge and moved inland 20 miles from Ocala. Now Ocala has been growing exponentially, highest in the state. Nightmare developing for the townies. But it does seem single family homes sales have slowed…

Glock-n-Load says

AD says

.

look on Zillow at 8111 Annabellas Ct and 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach , they are selling below their 2006 and 2007 price levels , and 8113 is selling below its 2022 sales price :-(

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8111-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/81779764_zpid/

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8113-Annabellas-Ct-Panama-City-Beach-FL-32407/112794721_zpid/

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Wow, did that first one really sell for $53k back in 2012? The discounts were that extreme? It had sold for $229k in 07.

Here in Silicon Valley, the land is what appreciates. Structures appreciate somewhat because the ever-increasing government requirements mean construction increases somewhat as well — just nothing compared to the land. Appreciation due to increased costs of new construction means structure at least keeps up with inflation.

A condo in a not-particularly-desireable part of Florida? Land not really appreciating. Structure not appreciating because building costs are not appreciating (thanks at least in part to DeSantis). In fact, the structure is going to depreciate as it gets older and needs repairs. Add to all of that potential massive insurance cost increases as an unexpected expense and you can get the result you see.

I had to rub my eyes. In 2021 I was looking for a 2 bed and they were all $1900. $2100 for the new apartments.

Now, I see homeloaners and ex-BNBers trying to rent their townhouse or 3 Bed (1960s converted, so no garage), 1.5 for $1600 and laughing.

The new multifamilies are offering 2 months free rent at $1400 for 900-1100 sq ft 2-3 bedrooms.

Knock 'em down.

Glock-n-Load says

Wow, did that first one really sell for $53k back in 2012? The discounts were that extreme? It had sold for $229k in 07.

Yes after the Bill Clinton-housing crash of 2007-20010 it was essentially a once in a lifetime jackpot for some landlord investors in Annabellas Townhomes and other townhome HOAs in Panama City Beach

a lot knew this was going to go down when they were giving out mortgages like candy to unqualified or subprime mortgagees

this time there is no subprime mortgage crisis and I'm thinking prices will slowly decrease or hold steady while Panama City Beach household income increases by at least 2.5% over the next 3 to 5 years ; this is the consensus among the county economic development alliance

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SharkyP says

. I got the hell outta Dodge and moved inland 20 miles from Ocala

yeah, 1 to 5 miles within the Florida shore and you are in the "wind pool"

once you get 15 miles or more away then you see a drop off in insurance premium

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SunnyvaleCA says

A condo in a not-particularly-desireable part of Florida? Land not really appreciating. Structure not appreciating because building costs are not appreciating (thanks at least in part to DeSantis). In fact, the structure is going to depreciate as it gets older and needs repairs. Add to all of that potential massive insurance cost increases as an unexpected expense and you can get the result you see.

I think DeSantis signed into law to make it easier on condos that are more than 3 stories high. And various AI tools show Florida property insurance to remain flat or decrease this year.

I've heard from real estate agents there is an increased demand for townhomes like Annabellas Townhomes from investors and full time condo residents.

A lot of the condos on Panama City Beach like Hathaway Townhomes and Annabellas Townhomes were built well after the Hurricane Andrew legislation, so that is what makes them not as expensive for HO-3 and HO-6 insurance.

We had Citizen Insurance (a Florida state government run insurance) inspect our homes like check the hurricane clips or straps in the attic as far as ensuring due diligence.

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AmericanKulak says

I had to rub my eyes. In 2021 I was looking for a 2 bed and they were all $1900. $2100 for the new apartments.

Now, I see homeloaners and ex-BNBers trying to rent their townhouse or 3 Bed (1960s converted, so no garage), 1.5 for $1600 and laughing.

The new multifamilies are offering 2 months free rent at $1400 for 900-1100 sq ft 2-3 bedrooms.

Knock 'em down.

Yep, every asset will likely return to the mean

I think that means go back 15 years and examine rent per square foot and it should only increase by about 3% annually in Panama City Beach

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I think the fire sale of 8113 Annabellas Ct in Panama City Beach is using the below site to sell

https://www.flatfee.com/

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/real-estate/article-14864837/condo-prices-record-slide-crisis-hits-breaking-point.html

Condo prices make record slide as crisis hits breaking point

Condo prices across the US are plummeting — with some areas seeing values sink by a staggering one-third in just a year.

The average condo sale price in the US fell 2.2 percent year over year to $354,100 in May, a new report shows — making it the second largest drop in records dating back to 2012.

The only steeper drop occurred in April 2023, shortly after the market’s post-pandemic peak, according to Redfin.

The biggest condo price drops are hitting Florida and Texas. In May, Deltona, Florida saw prices fall over 32 percent year-over-year — the steepest decline nationwide.

Crestview, Florida (down 32 percent), Houston, Texas (down 23 percent), Tampa, Florida (down 19 percent), and Oakland, California (down 20 percent) also faced sharp drops.

Seven of the top ten metros with the largest price declines were in Florida, two in Texas. Sellers in parts of Florida have had to drop prices below $10,000.

Sales are sliding just as fast. Markets like Dallas, Palm Bay, Port St. Lucie, and Orlando saw condo sales drop over 30 percent year-over-year, with Florida again dominating the list of hardest-hit areas.

Condo prices are falling for a number of reasons. One major factor is that the market is flooded. There are 80 percent more condo sellers than buyers.

Patrick says

Condo prices across the US are plummeting — with some areas seeing values sink by a staggering one-third in just a year.

But...the 'coasts'!

MolotovCocktail says

Patrick says

Condo prices across the US are plummeting — with some areas seeing values sink by a staggering one-third in just a year.

But...the 'coasts'!

Lol dude. You're losing it. They're coastal areas..... They're urban areas.... Let me know when I'm wrong. I've said it's urban areas AND coastal areas where the prices will drop. These are all places within 2 hours of the beach AND urban. Prices in my region have increased, and that includes Chicago, so I'm wrong there. See it's okay to admit you're wrong.

Just own up to the fact I've been 90% correct. It's okay. Millennials are starting families, own condos and are leaving urban areas. For every smart ass comment you make you look more like the fool. What real estate have you ever done? My guess is none and you're just a sad renter. Jealousy is a bad look.

Keep attacking people though and changing user names so people don't put you on ignore. You've never had an intelligent real estate comment besides criticizing other users. It's bull shit and you're a troll. You know nothing about real estate. 10 markets mean nothing beside what I've explained over and over. People are moving out of cities in coastal areas and/or buyer are going elsewhere. This isn't difficult.

You want a crash because you didn't buy. Sad really. It's not coming, unless you want a shitty city condo.

WookieMan says

You want a crash because you didn't buy.

I did buy, but I want a crash so I can buy more.

Condos in Florida are a hard sell. Thanks to the new 10,20, and 30 year inspections. The assessments are driving potential buyers away.
Since two story condos are exempt and don't have such requirements. Investors are buying up every house in Hollywood that comes up for sell, to demolish and build a Brutal square box quadplex in their place. They are hideous, just a cookie cutter box. It's the new thing.

In Florida, there's no real estate crash in some places which I frequent when I am not in fucked up sunny Mexico.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says
You want a crash because you didn't buy.

I did buy, but I want a crash so I can buy more.

Wasn't directed at you.

WookieMan says

I've said it's urban areas AND coastal areas where the prices will drop.

Oklahoma prices are dropping. That's not an urban AND costal area.

WookieMan says

Just own up to the fact I've been 90% correct.

Can't when you are not and only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

MolotovCocktail says

Can't when you are not and only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

Huh? I am right. You've proven nothing wrong. Look below on Chicago Metro and Oklahoma. You're wrong.

https://www.timeout.com/chicago/news/chicago-area-home-prices-are-rising-four-times-faster-than-the-rest-of-the-u-s-062725

MolotovCocktail says

Oklahoma prices are dropping. That's not an urban AND costal area.

When I use the word AND it means coastal areas are losing value. So are cities that could be inland. It doesn't have to be both. One AND/OR the other. A retard would have understood that.

Looking at national and statewide values is quite possibly the dumbest counter argument there could be. I've shared the above link multiple times. You've shown me nothing. I think just a map of where statewide prices have dropped is all you've posted with no backing data. That fucking means nothing. Give data and not photos. My link above is from June 27, 2025.

Give me up to date stats, not just a colored map where one city can change the entire state. Here, I'll give you data on Oklahoma State. Up 2.1% the last year. https://www.zillow.com/home-values/45/ok/

I'm not wrong. You are and I just proved it with data in two locations. And even IF OK was down the home prices are next to nothing. Next I bet you'll bring up Minnesota. Or Colorado. Give me facts or shut the fuck up.

MolotovCocktail says

Oklahoma prices are dropping. That's not an urban AND costal area

Oklahoma has insurance issues due to things like hail damage to the extent it might actually be worse than Florida / California / Hawaii / Colorado. That's going to cause housing prices to drop.

zzyzzx says

Oklahoma has insurance issues due to things like hail damage to the extent it might actually be worse than Florida / California / Hawaii / Colorado. That's going to cause housing prices to drop.

IL has rising property taxes yet the major metro region, 3rd largest in the country is appreciating with high interest rates. Usually it's just a roof with hail. I've only seen one roof in my town this year replaced and we've had hail.

Let's call it $8k as I know the home sizes here. There's 800 homes and probably 40 other non-res buildings. I'd guess 95% pay home owners insurance or have insurance on their commercial property. 10 houses easily cover that. The insurance companies are making money and are able to invest that. For OK the tornado fear is the bigger factor, not hail.

Total home replacement is the biggest fear for insurance companies. Plus they might be making up for lost revenue in states like CA and FL where they backed out insuring there. So they raise rates to generally low risk states for total loss. OK is just roofs and the rare tornado that hits a relatively rural area of the country.

Basically it shouldn't move the needle on housing prices in OK since housing replacement values are comparatively low with the rest of the country. So a $900/yr rate might go to $1,100/yr. $200/yr is not going to stop you from buying a house if you want one.

WookieMan says

When I use the word AND it means coastal areas are losing value. So are cities that could be inland. It doesn't have to be both. One AND/OR the other. A retard would have understood that.

Nope. AND is not AND/OR.

If you don't know how to express conditional logic properly, why even try?

zzyzzx says

Oklahoma has insurance issues due to things like hail damage to the extent it might actually be worse than Florida / California / Hawaii / Colorado. That's going to cause housing prices to drop.

Yeah but my Red State Bubbas over there tell me that Climate Change Is A Hoax.

MolotovCocktail says

WookieMan says

I've said it's urban areas AND coastal areas where the prices will drop.

Oklahoma prices are dropping. That's not an urban AND costal area.

WookieMan says

Just own up to the fact I've been 90% correct.

Can't when you are not and only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

Oh jeez, give it up. You'll never get the best in a disagreement with a person who already knows everything about everything.

Just kick back and enjoy for comedic relief the hilarious ridiculousness of his assertions, like about military vet Tammy Duckworth, values of Boeing top leadership, day to day living of Californians, competence of commercial airline pilots and all else.

Just kick back and enjoy!